Not meant for me: A conversation with Sarah Kroger

Editor’s Note: Musician Sarah Kroger is scheduled to perform at the Catholic Diocese of Wichita’s Second Annual Women’s Conference, set for Friday and Saturday, March 6-7 at the Hyatt Regency in Wichita. Last month she took some time to speak with the Catholic Advance about her formative experiences in the areas of faith and music, which revealed considerable overlap between the two. The following conversation has been lightly edited for reasons of space and clarity.

You just got back from New Zealand. What was that like?

Oh, it was incredible. It felt like a whole other planet. It was really awesome to be there.

To what extent – and if it’s zero, I’ll take no offense – were you interested to see locations that appeared in The Lord of the Rings?

We did not go to any official locations in Lord of the Rings. But honestly, the whole country, looks like a scene from the movies. It’s wild, so it feels like you’re walking through the movies when you’re there. It’s cool.

What was your impression of the church there? What’s the Catholic spirituality and culture like?

It was beautiful to see that, and to kind of just experience a different culture from what I am used to, but at the same time, it’s also the same Church. It was cool to be reminded that even though they’re on the complete opposite side of the world, they still say the same prayers and believe in the same things and pray to the same God. And it’s just a really beautiful thing.

Now we pivot from very recent memories of recent weeks and go further back. Can you talk a bit about your youth and upbringing in a musical family? What was the beginning of the origin story there?

My parents were both music ministers before I was born, so music was a huge part of my life. 

Was one playing the guitar and the other one singing?

They were both choir directors. My mom played guitar. My dad didn’t play any instruments, but he was a choral director. They both went to school for it and had a deep love for the Church and for music in the Church and liturgy, and so we were “voluntold” to be a part of children’s choirs growing up. We also had to take piano lessons. When I was younger, I really hated being forced into that, but I also had a deep love for music from the time that I was really young, and so I am grateful for that foundation, especially now that I do this full time and literally don’t know where I’d be without that musical foundation in my life. 

It’s just who I am. It’s in my bones, and I think a large part of that comes from my parents and genetics. My brother and sister also both love music and play instruments. They didn’t go into it as a full-time occupation, but all of us are musically inclined.

Where are you in the birth order?

I’m middle. I hid my gift for music for many years because I was bullied in elementary school.

I wanted to ask about that. I saw a reference to the bullying, and a bit about the youth retreat experience. It sounds like a story. I wonder if you’re okay with expanding on it. Can you set the scene a bit regarding where you were at that point in your life?

Yeah, sure. I was in the fourth grade. My parents divorced when I was 10, and so we had to move cities and schools. We moved from Stuart, Florida to Melbourne, Florida. And, you know, my life, for all intents and purposes, blew up. I was dealing with the aftershocks of that, and trying to figure out being a new girl at a new school and what that looks like. That was kind of the background of that point in my life. 

Kids can just be so mean, especially toward new girls. I was a very quirky kid, as you can imagine – a musician, just a bit of a nerd who really liked studying and reading. I wore different styles of shoes or hats that kind of stood out a bit because I didn’t go with the trends. Standing out makes you an easy target, and so kids would just make fun of me to my face or behind my back.

You were in the fourth grade?

Yeah.

I was a new kid in the third grade, so I’ve been there.

So, you get it. And I mean, now I look back on it and say “Okay, they were just kids, and they were insecure,” and “Hurt people hurt people.” They were probably being hurt themselves in some way, and they were taking it out on me. But it is also interesting how something that someone says to you when you’re that young can stick with you so that you have to face it later and uproot it from your life. That was definitely one of those things that I had to face later in life: “The things that those kids said about me are not true, not real and I need to free myself from them.”

One of those areas was my love for music. I just didn’t want it to be torn down, like the rest of me had been, so I just decided to hide it and didn’t want anyone to see that in my life. I just kept it for myself and then, you know, the rest of my story has to do with going to a youth camp and experiencing contemporary worship music for the first time.

Was that at a Steubenville Youth Conference?

I did go to a Steubenville Youth Conference, but-

But that’s not the one you’re talking about.

I was at Life Teen Camp Cove Crest and there were worship leaders leading music, including one named Matt Maher, who is a friend now. But back in the day, he was one of the first to expose me to contemporary worship music, and show me how to pray with contemporary worship songs. That week changed my life and opened me to God in a way that I’d never experienced. It was also my first introduction to the idea of having a personal relationship with Jesus. And, yeah, it changed my life. 

At the end of the week, a speaker was addressing the whole group, just giving us a word of encouragement, but it felt like one of those moments where God was shining a light on me. He said, “If you have a gift from God and you’re not using it, you’re denying the glory of God within you.” I just felt like the Lord was inviting me to say “yes,” to go back to that closet where I hid my gift for music, unlock it, and just recognize this isn’t meant just for me. It’s meant for the glory of God, and and he was inviting me into that process in my life, and into shining for his – for God’s – glory, not mine. And so I just started saying, yes.

Do you remember how you ended up at that conference?

I was invited by my youth minister. 

At the time of the invitation, to what extent were you really intrigued? Or were you just going with the flow?

I did not know what to expect. I had no clue what a youth camp even meant – that was still pretty new. Back when I was a teen, I think they were really just starting out, especially in the Catholic space, so it was very new. I just wasn’t sure, but I saw something in my youth minister that’s hard to put into words. There was such a joy with them that was captivating and really just made me question my own life. It was like ‘Why don’t I have this joy?’ And so when they invited me to this place, I was like, “Well, if it’s going to help me find what you have, then I should say ‘yes.’” So because of that witness, honestly through their life, I said yes and it literally changed my life.”

So throughout the week you experienced music that really clicked with you, to which you had not really been exposed, and it built to that moment on the last day when a speaker said hiding your gift is to hide the glory of God. Is that a decent summation?

Yes, I would say so.

And when the camp ended, it proved to be more than a short-lived mountaintop moment that faded away. It changed your life, both interiorly and exteriorly. Take us from there.

It changed everything. I went back to my church, volunteered as a cantor, and was absolutely terrified. I would love to be able to say, “Yes, and everything fell into place,” but that’s just not reality. I was still absolutely terrified to sing in front of people, but something had shifted internally. I was convicted that God was calling me to do it. Because of that, I had the courage to say “Yes” and follow through. And he met me with courage every single time. I just learned how to grow in that. 

I also was at a church that was really affirming and just full of people who were speaking positivity into my life, and affirming that God had called me to this. So because I had champions in the community and this feeling, this conviction from God, I continued saying “Yes” by his grace. And slowly but surely, I gained confidence and started leading worship at my youth group, and then the youth group down the street, and then doors just kind of opened and everything snowballed from there. 

I went to college for music and met Catholic worship leaders, who were doing this on a national level. They invited me into their ministry, took me under their wing in many ways, and helped me to learn how to write songs, personal songs, for the first time. And then things really, really snowballed from there and I just tried to hold on for dear life. And I continue to hold on.

How much was this a goal you pursued, and to what extent were you swept along in the current, where one thing leads to another? Do any moments stick out in your memory about that portion of your journey as particularly, fun, vivid, or otherwise interesting?

One that comes to mind right away is when I was graduating from Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida, and was planning to get my master’s, either in childhood education, to become a music teacher or to do music therapy. I was just trying to figure out what my next path was going to be. 

All the while in the background, there was this deep desire to be a music missionary of sorts, but I didn’t know what that looked like. One night, a worship leader named Josh Blakesley came to our church. I had met him serving at that same camp where as a teenager I had experienced that deeper conversion to my faith. I had gone back to serve as a summer staffer, met him, and we stayed in touch. He came to our church for a concert, and after it he told me he needed a female worship leader at conferences that summer. It was literally like a dream come true. “If I could do that, I would die happy.” It wasn’t just one conference, it was five conferences, and was one of those moments where I felt like God was inviting me to dream bigger. 

That summer, Josh Blakesley took me under his wing and showed me the ropes of leading worship, but also he had the forethought to say I should write songs as well. It was like “You can write songs, you have a story to share, you have a gift, and let’s do this.” So he invited me to Nashville and I started writing songs with other artists, particularly Sarah Hart, who is another Catholic artist and incredible songwriter. Both of them spent a week with me, writing songs and putting together my first album. 

Ever since that first summer, I remember telling God, “I give this back to you. If this is not what you want, take it away. But if it is what you want, put fuel on the fire and show me that this is what you want, and I’ll say, yes.” And I have kept to that every year, I truly have. I have said “Lord, if this is what you want, continue to make it happen. If it’s not, then I give you full permission to close doors, because I want what you want.” And it just has continued to  –  I know I keep saying it – but it just keeps snowballing.

“Snowball” is not a poor choice of words this month. We’re having this conversation on Jan. 22, a major day in the pro-life movement. You got some of your performing starts at the March for Life. Was that before or after that summer?

Oh, that was long after that summer, but yeah it was a massive event and it was one of the biggest events at which I had ever played to that point. It was just beautiful to witness people standing up and advocating for life.

What aspect of a musical career comes easiest, and at what piece must you work hardest?

Wow, I’ve never been asked that question. Honestly, what always has come relatively easy for me is singing. I’ve been singing my entire life and love it. You can’t stop me from singing. Truly, it just comes out of me. Getting to sing is my favorite thing in the entire world. I love it so much. 

It’s also not very hard for me to disappear when I’m leading worship. That’s one of my favorite things, because it’s not about me or my voice. It’s very much like an out of body experience. A lot of times when I lead worship I sort of disappear into the background and allow the Lord to use my voice, the songs, the lyrics, the moment, for his glory and to encounter his people. Those things come easiest to me. 

As for the hardest, to this day, songwriting is such a mystery to me. I have written a lot of decent songs and a lot of really terrible songs. It’s still such a mystery to me, and I am okay with that. It’s humbling to sit down and try to write a song. Some days it flows out. At other times, it feels like wrestling a beast to the ground, but it’s so worth it. It is so worth it when you get that song that captures a moment that you’re wrestling, or something in life that you’re sorting through, or that captures something you’ve walked through. There is nothing like that feeling. 

I was just re-reading St. John Paul II’s “Letter to Artists,” which mentions how creatives are tapping into the same mystery that has allowed the Creator to create the universe. That’s what we’re tapping into when we create a piece of art. I will never be able to capture that and put it into words, even in an interview. I just have to surrender to it. That’s probably what comes hardest, but it’s such a cool, special thing to continually be a part of.

Can you compare and contrast the similarities and differences between writing music and writing books? You’ve done both.

I was surprised they’re not the same. Writing books can be a lonely process because so much relies on you first before it goes to an editor. So much of it is from your perspective: trying to sort through things, how to word it, and I can get very deep in the weeds with how I want it to sound, especially with a children’s book. That is even more intense because you have less real estate and fewer words to work with. The words really, really matter in that medium. And so even that was a different process than writing a devotional and different from writing a song. I would say they’re all connected in their artistic side. They are all coming from the same well, but they’re all different forms, voices, or expressions. 

Podcasts are another form of expression. I listened to a few episodes of the “No Filters” podcast you did with your husband, Dom. Those come off more like conversations, so I don’t know how much preparation you had to do, but are you likely to return to it? Or was the podcast for that album only and now you’re done with it?

That’s a great question. Honestly, I think we do want to come back to it only because of people’s reactions. We got a lot of feedback from people saying they don’t necessarily hear a lot of Catholic couples speaking candidly in that way. That wasn’t even our intention. We were trying to do a podcast around my last album, with conversations around the songs. We thought we should capture those conversations in case they inspire anyone else, because they inspire us. We have been talking about how to keep those conversations going and maybe even bring in other voices. There is definitely a possibility we will resurrect the podcast, we’re just not sure when that’s going to be. 

Listening, I thought, “They such have great chemistry,” and then, “I hope so, they’re married.”

Thank you, I appreciate that.

At the Catholic Women’s Conference, are you going to sing, speak, or a little of both?

Whenever I lead worship, I interject here and there if the moment calls for it. I might share a few reflections, but for the most part, I am just leading worship, which is where I’m happiest. 

Why should women come?

Sign up soon, because it’s probably going to sell out. Get your ticket now. Although I do not know Sr. Mary Rachel Craig well, I do know Laura Phelps personally, and she is incredible. Her amazing messages will make you laugh and cry. You don’t want to miss out. Then I also know what the Lord can do through women gathering together, open to what he wants to do in their lives. That’s unstoppable, and coming together with other women in your community like that is not an experience to be missed.

Have you been to the Wichita area? If so, what comes to mind?

I have, yeah. What comes to mind is how much kindness I have experienced from people in the Diocese of Wichita. I also love how it’s set up with the situation where parents who tithe can send their children to Catholic schools. I have never heard of another diocese doing that. The first time I heard that, I thought “Everyone should do that. I don’t understand why that’s not standard in every diocese across the globe. Everyone should be encouraged to tithe with their time, talent and treasure.” 

It’s really powerful and encourages everyone to give of themselves. And depending on where a family is, economically, it takes so much pressure off. I think that’s incredible, I really do.